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>>mahealani: more than 50years ago, the federal equal pay act supposedly endedsalaries discrimination based on gender yet women arestill less than men offered less opportunity it's foradvancement despite on average being bettereducated. what struggles remain forwomen in the workplace? >>mahealani: coming up nexton insights on pbs hawai'i. what struggles remain forwomen in the workplace. >>mahealani: aloha andwelcome to insights on pbs
hawai'i.i'm mahealani richardson. the host for insights on pbshawai'i. women make up nearly half ofhawai'i's work force, yet are paid only 82% of their malecounterparts wages. while the gap is smaller thanwhen the equal rights amendment passed, men andwomen still don't get paid the same amount for the same work.this comes despite the fact that more women than men go tocollege and are branching out into a variety of fieldsincluding those once
dominated by men.meanwhile, they're still taking on the brunt of theresponsibility for their homes and families.what struggles remain for women in the workplace? weinvite you to join our conversation by calling,e-mailing or tweeting your questions and comments.now to our panel. coralie matayoshi is a motherof three and regional ceo for the american red crosshawai'i and pacific islands chapters.she is also a member of the
university of hawai'i boardof regents. gerri hayes is at ceo ofoffice pavilion, one of the most successful women ownedbusinesses in hawai'i. she founded the company andraised two daughters as a single mother.ricci keltz is a captain in the honolulu fire department.she is the third female captain in the history of thedepartment. ricci is a single mother, with7 children. teresa bill is thecoordinator for the
university of hawai'i'sbridge to hope. a program for students onwelfare who attend the university.she also lectures at the u.h. women's studies departmentteaching a course on women and work.ricci, i'm going to start off with you.as i gave the introduction, some of our panelists, we allgasped. you raised 7 children., couple of them are still in school right now.how do you manage to do it all
with your work schedule?>> well, at that time, when i was was married, we bothworked separate jobs, so we were a merged family.when he was working, i worked. vice versa.so we actually work good together.>>mahealani: gerri, you raised children on your owntoo. what did at that take to raisechildren and have your own business?>> it actually, i started the business as limb older.so it wasn't quite as
demanding for me.i started the business maybe more to keep me busy and asthey got older and didn't leave me.i was a single parent almost the whole time but had a lotof support and friends and family.>>mahealani: women in hawai'i are making less than men.what do you make of that pay in equity?>> i think it's just, we've all accepted it.we just sort of -- it's been part of our, as a woman.>> who employs people, try to
have parity in pay.as an employee, in my past life, i realized it's just theway it was. half the time you didn't knowbecause you weren't allowed access to other people's payscales. so you didn't find out 'tillater that you were the low man on the -- low woman on thetotem pole. >>mahealani: teresa, youteach this teresa. you teach this course on women andpay. >> i do.i think that the both ricci
and gerri's experiences arepretty -- are not uncommon in that children either chooseto start their own businesses.hawai'i has a lot of small businesses. sometimes whenyour employer is able to accommodate you if you'reable to start a business, that helps.also women look to nontraditional jobs forincreased pay. that's one way that women areable to have more equitable pay.>>mahealani: i mean, there's
a variety of reasons why womenare paid less in the islands. >> there are.i think basically, what it comes down to is after youtake out all of the other factors, there's still about10 to 15% of pay is unaccountable for other thandiscrimination. i think some of is cultural interm else of our expectations about what we expect femaleworkers to do and what we expect their malecounterparts to do. >>mahealani: coralie, you'vehad to learn a lot of tough
lessons from the board room torunning a nonprofit. what did you have to learnabout pay and fighting for equality?>> well, as a lawyer, we do have negotiating skills so.that helps. i think that as women becomemore educated and there's more women in the top.it will help. but the bottom line is it'show society views women in the workplace.brought a demonstrable exhibit with me.this is a beautiful, cute
picture from china that mymanaging partner brought for me.i was the only woman in the law firm and i got this one.i had three-month-old baby at the time.but my two counterparts were male and they got warriors.i was a litigator too, so i had really mixed feelings aboutthis. i loved this.i would never trade being a mom, but i wondered why theyviewed me like that. and i'm a litigator too.>>mahealani: it's
interesting because in the70's and eighties, a lot of women had to almost be likemen in the work force. now we see things a littledifferently. ricci, why don't you talkabout being one of the few women in hfd, honolulu firedepartment. there's 1100 firefighters,right? now there's only about a dozen femalefirefighters? >> what i've been doing for 21years, but i really don't know any different.working with men, i just know
that there's a difference inmen's humor is different. a lot.>>mahealani: how did your presence change the dynamicof the workplace? >> i think they might excusethemselves more you know. for what they said or bodilyfunctions. but basically, if i wasn't inthe room, then they kid around a lot more.so i think they try to be a little more respectfulbecause men, they like to kid around and tease each other alot.
and other than that, i don'tknow. it's just what i've been doingfor so long, i really don't know the difference.i've never had to work with a bunch of women, but i hearthat there's a big difference when women work with women,maybe there might be a little more drama.i'm not really sure, honestly.mahealani: gerri, why don't you talk about that.you managed men and women and your employees perhaps seeyou differently as a female
boss.>> oh, yes. i definitely think one ofthose things, i've noticed over 28 years around thecompany. it's really funny, i find alot of my young install you aves, some of them, i said didi hire you before you were legal age? they all call memom. on the other hand, i foundwith the women, you get a lot of transference about theirmothers or how they, very different dynamic.also, i've always been
described as very tough, butfair. and i think it's hard, i canbe pretty -- i can be pretty tough.i think it's not, you're not judged the same way if i wasa man, i know i would never have heard or had some of theresponses that i've had from employees.in particularly, you know, you try to be nurturing andsupportive at the same time, you've got a job to do.so it's a very difficult line to walk.but i found with my young men
installers, one of them hasbeen with me for 27 years. really realized that theyjust see you more of a mother figure.>>mahealani: on the flip side, is it fair that perhapssome people might see a female ceo or female boss as maybe anegative attribute whereas male boss might be just seenas let's say demanding? >> oh, yes.i definitely, i know for a fact that because i am, alwaysjoked, that i'm very male and like you said, coming in the70's, you really develop to be
successful, i'm from boston.so i'm a very aggressive woman to begin with.have to tone it down a lot. could do it.i think that's why women do branch out to be their ownboss. if you were trying to climbthe corporate ladder, you might have had to bite yourtongue a few more times than not.right? >> wouldn't be able to talk.i have to bite my tongue off. >> one of the reasons istarted the business, i
reached a point when irealized quite outspoken and very direct and would cutright to the chase. >>mahealani: teresa, youmentioned some cultural differences in terms ofactually the culture and the climate here in the islands interms of the difference or men and women.>> i was thinking about our, when we talked about what dowomen need and part of this is our own communities tochange. our cultural expectations formen and women.
we had a little bit about whatthe topic was going to be tonight.there are some organizations that are looking for and doingresearch on how do we encourage employers,businesses, employees, to be able to both to do that familyand work balance and to be able to, what i call how tohelp women sort of juggle better, but also, how to takesome things off the plate and encourage men to participatein more family care and for our cultural changes, for usto have acceptance and
understanding that that'ssomething for parents, not just mothers.>>howard: coralee, you have an interesting story abouthow you raised your kid us. you climbed the corporateladder with yourself doing it with your kids.>> it's because, always says this about her husbandrussell. if i didn't have such a greathusband, i wouldn't be here. he was, you know, not so greatin the beginning. i whipped him into shape.he realized that if anybody
was going to climb the ladder,that they had to be -- we had to be equal at home.there's just no way we can do it and all society shouldn'texpect it. it's better for the whole ofsociety if we allow men to be able to take time off.i mean, it shouldn't be looked down upon that that men takethe maternity leave. it should be encouraged.it's hard for men too. it's not only women.>>mahealani: it sounds very much like the themes thatcheryl sandberg was talking
about.>> yes, it is. >>mahealani: she said that atruly equal world would be where men ran half of ourcountries and companies and men ran half of our homes.we're far away from that. very far way.>>mahealani: why is it that women still have to shoulderthe burden of the cooking and cleaning, even if they'rerunning a company? >> i think women at home tryto control the home, and if it's not done their way, thenthey're not happy.
>> so then we might say, youdidn't do it the way i like it to be done, so it would beeasier to say, you know what? go ahead and do it.>>mahealani: it's a two way street.>> it is. you have to accept the wayit's done by someone else and not control how they're goingto do it. >> of course, you have to havethe guy even initiate it. some people don't.>> that's true. or else just ask the childrento do it.
>> let them off the hook whenthe underwear is pink. >> he had to wear it too.>> younger adults now have expectations aboutcontributing and that young men as well as young women arecapable of laundry, cooking and caring for theirsiblings. and the key is to encouragethat, not to end when they have their own, nuclearfamily. >>mahealani: teresa, we hadhave some successful women sitting right here at thistable.
does that mean there are fewyou are challenges in the workplace for women becauseof the examples we have here? >> i don't think there arefewer challenges. it's nice to see that womenare able to achieve visible positions of leadership.i think women have always been good at leadership.it's whether or not they were able to be to the ceo or tappedfor it. i think women have a lot moreopportunities now, but there's still lots ofchallenges.
>>mahealani: you workedspecifically with students who are on welfare.i. >> i work with very low incomestudent and most of them are single parents.they are participated in higher education and they arepathway to more prosperous abilities to support theirfamilies. so and they also, i can saywith the families that i work with, if they have a supportsystem that can help them, it's enormously impactful sothat when somebody is by
themselves trying to juggletheir child care by themselves, it's very, verydifficult. >>mahealani: child care is ata major obstacle for most people? is it easier?>> big one on the table. if this country was likescandinavia where they really have, truly honor familiesand children and support them, it's always consideredyour problem to provide child care.i was one of them. trying to go back to schooland juggle and education and
you still had to work certainnumber of hours and you had all of these otherobligations. the society does not supportit in any way shape or form. it's so detrimental.there's such a disincentive for these young people here.in hawai'i, much more of an ohana where people, if theyhave family, people contribute, whereas backthen, it didn't really happen.you were really on your own. >> it's the women, it's ourburden and men can be a helper
and people think, why yourhusband helps. i would love to just be ahelper and not have to worry about the dishes and laundry.you do all of that and you're not a great mom.you don't even think about it. but a man can coach soccer ormow the lawn once a month. take the garbage out once aweek and they're fantastic. >>mahealani: why do you thinkthere's so few ceo's out there? is it too difficultto reach that height? >> i think women takethemselves back too because
we feel guilty.so we're not going to go golfing.we're not going to go after drinking or whatever.that is a burden for business because it is networking angetting to establish relationships for business.but we know that when you're doing that, you're not withyour kids. men don't have that obstaclein their skills. it is guilt.>> ricci, did you have guilt? >> you know, i'm not one to dothe partying after.
i think i never reallysocially networked a lot during my career with thefirefighters. i rarely go to retirementparties and rarely bo to promotion parties.i try to show up once in a while, but basically, i feellike i need to go home to my kids.>> at that time, it was only 10 years of my life that i wasraising more -- right now, i only have two at home. and istill feel just as guilty and wanting to spend time with mychildren.
and financially, hereeconomically, we work more than one job and i'm workingmore than one job right now. i feel like every time that ihave time off, i want to spend time with my kids and i'mreally lucky. i have children that talk tome. and that i do spend time with.and it's more important to me than the networking honestly.i love to go play golf with a bunch of people, but i enjoythe time with my children. >>mahealani: how do thefemale firefighter recruits
keep up with the malefirefighter recruits? are there differences in terms ofactually passing the test? because it's incrediblephysical challenges that you have to do.>> it's exactly the same. we do exactly the same thing.i remember years ago, there was a female recruit who hadjust had a child. i don't know how she did that.when you're breast feeding, i think that's one of thebiggest challenges is when you're actually pregnant andbreast feeding and raising
very small children.as they get older, they kind of take care of themselves.>>mahealani: physically, what do you have to do to passthe test? >> pass the original coming intest? i'm not really sure the exact process.i know when i came in, we had to run a mile and a half.i think it was 7 minutes a mile.so whatever time that was. swim a couple of hundredmeters. drag a dummy.>> a guy.
>> they weigh about the sameas a guy. (laughter)>> incredible in terms of what all the recruits can do.>> you mentioned something about breast feeding.via tricia from e-mail. wants to know the importanceof breast feeding women in the workplace especially thosewho wish to return to their jobs and continue expressingmilk. what do you know about that?>> well, the good thing is that with the affordable careact now, there's a
requirement for employers tobe able to offer lactation space for breast feedingemployees. so that's something that hasgotten more visibility because of that sort offederal requirement. and then i'll do my plug forwhen we're working with the university, is students arenot covered under employees in terms of needing spacerequiring space for lactation, but the women'scenter in student services we're where like, you can'tjust say they're not
employees so we're notrequired to do it because they still have breast feedingstudents. employers are required tomake accommodations for breast feeding employees.that's a good change that we've seen in the last 2years. it's a big change because itallows women to breast feed and to pump longer.>> when i was -- i also had two children during working as afirefighter and i also worked as a substitute teacher.you might say that they have
to have it available.but i remember pumping in the restroom stall at school andit's really hard to concentrate.the fact that they have to have it, i think the womenhave to be willing to ask for it too.i think we don't always ask for our rights.>> i think that that's true. a lot of times people aren'taware of what their rights are and aren't necessarily sureabout -- depending upon your workplace, especially if it'ssmaller, there's more social
peer pressure about what youask for and not ask for. actually, the horror storiesof pumping in restrooms has become much more commonplaceas a horror story with this new regulations because itrequires that it cannot be a restroom facility.and it needs to have certain parameters for privacy.i think people, if you have respect for your coworker,and you can find a way to make it work, that's what peopledo. i think as we know, as anisland, and other places,
like space is always at apremium, right? people are like when are we going to beable to not share this office for something? at thewomen's center, we had students who wouldbe -- there was no place for them to pump.so it would be like okay, you can take my office because hasa door. okay.then there were more and more. okay, i have an office becausei have a job and but what about women who are clerical workerwho don't have offices with
doors? so that's the partabout finding -- it's not a disability but it's like adisability where people are making reasonableaccommodations so that women can continue to breast feed.>> one of the things you're talking about is womenadvocating for themselves. gerri, you work with women interms of being their employer.talking about pay, how are things different when you'renegotiating a salary between a woman and a man?>> it's very sexist.
i must admit.almost everyone in my office is a woman.i have three women at the warehouse, but the restare -- i have always felt women had less chances.if i had a choice and i had equal candidates, i wouldhire a woman. i've had a number of them,whole lot of come through who were pregnant and we alwayshad a quiet room, special room where they designed it, whenwe designed our offices because you knew you needed aplace and it should be quiet
and had refrigeratorfacilities. and the ability.so many of us as women, nobody batted and eyelash.some of them even did a blanket were sitting there.between design ires, working away>>mahealani: women advocating for thisthemselves, pay, time off, do you see women advocating lessthan men? >> with better conditions notto be bossy. there's studies that showthat women tend to be team
players more and that they'llthink of themselves as a float, man would say, oh,great. just float.they have studies like that. so we're kind of conditionedto be a little bit more reserved and not brag and pushteamwork with which is great workplace>>mahealani: do you find the women in your workplace,they're not asking for the big raise? they're not askingfor more money or for the promotion as say the men in?>> nonprofits tend to attract
women.it's true. i've been in the law firmwhere you're willing every six minutes and everythingand i know that it's really important because it doesn'tcost any more. just to be able to allowpeople to do their thing. >> i want to share a resourcethat the american association of university women, auw, hadidentified that young women's lack of negotiating for paywas an area that was ripe for development.so actually this, they have
a whole training sessioncalled start smart. it's about teaching collegeaged women and young adults women to do market research,so you know what the job pays and that it's not about you.it's about the job. and who's performing the job.and how to negotiate, negotiating skills.because as most people in retrospect will find that ifyou don't negotiate your first pay, that becomes thefoundation for all of your future raises, that you get a3% raise, but you started
back.that's part of how you get these accumulated differencein pay between men and women who work at the same offices.it's a really great program. and i think one of the thingsabout teaching people particularly women so thatthey can develop kills that they need and i shared thesame things with my coworkers who are looking for a new joband people who you know. it's not about you.it's about what can you provide for your family.and the more and better you
negotiate, the better foryour family. i think the other element isthat equal pay is good for everybody.it's not just good for that particular employee.it's good for her family. it's good for the economy.it brings more money into that household.>> ricci, are pay differences even an issue in the firedepartment? >> no.i think we just limit ourselves.we choose to get promoted or
not.that's whether you're male or female.what are our priorities at the time.if you want to move up, and get promoted, study more.pass your interview. it just depends on what youwant to do as an individual. men tend to be morecompetitive. they possibly have thesupport of a woman at home to help them with theirchildren. and so then they can be morecompetitive and they work
harder to get promotedfaster. but it's still allindividually. i think, it just what we wantto do, if we want to get promoted early on or not.>>mahealani: it's interesting that it brings upsort of a just being feminine in the workplace.70's, women were burning their bras and sometimeswomen showed their bras a little bit.coralie, is there a good way of using femininety in theworkplace or board room
>> i think you can be tough butrespected and show your feminineity.i think women have more emotional iq and i think whenthe economy kind of collapsed, that we were ableto rebound a little bit better.more flexible and everything. so i think that showing thatwe have these skills of negotiating and getting alongis really valuable to the company and that we shouldshow that side of us. >>mahealani: teresa, betsyfrom hawaii kai wants to
expand on why women get lessmoney. other than motherhood, whatthe other reasons for that? >> other than the culturalresistance to negotiating, which we're trying to -- oneis cultural expectations as we said.is somebody going to call. this man is assertive andskilled or is this lucky and whatever.but the other part is actually, the caller broughtit back to actually parent hood.there's more and more
research showing that whenpeople look into the reasons for the discrepancies inearnings for women, is that it's not just the genderedgap. actually, there's a parenthood gap and that taking yourself out of the work forcefor a while, which sometimes people do, when they have achild, contributes to pay disparities as well asemployer's expectations that you're going to becomepregnant or once you have children, the workplace is nolonger going to be your
primary focus.and i think part of that is encouraging like gerri said,all of us should be thinking that it's good for all of ourfamilies, if all of our employees spend time withtheir family. >> today, we're asking whatstruggles remain for women in the workplace.we invite you to join our questions and comments.call 973-1000 on oahu. and 1-800-283-4847.from the neighbor islands. gerri, many years ago, youmade the jump from being the
employee to the employer.how did that happen and why did you make that decision?>> actually, i was running a territory for a company inseattle and did a very huge project.ended up with the hmsa building.at the end of it, i found out that my commission check hadbeen shorted by about $87,000.the way i found out was former colonel friend here, his wifehad moved to seattle and got her a job in another company.she knew me.
during the process of doingthe commission, she this for sit through the meetings withall the men going there's no way a woman is going to makethat much money. they began back loading allkinds of expenses against the job.when the commission report came over, i got a fedex onefrom her. it was all highlighted.she said, take this to your attorney around cpa.these are all bogus and i can prove it and i will testify.i was crushed because i just
really felt bad.so what i decided to do instead was just, i was goingto leave and then there was a question, do i want to workfor somebody else and then i found out that there was anopportunity to get a -- you have to have a dealershiplicense, and there was one available from a guy whoretired here in town. like an idiot, i made theleap. wonderful salesperson, butthat doesn't make you a business owner.i got an mba on the run.
i mean, you have to learn allof the things that going to starting and growing abusiness. but it was well worth it.i don't think i had anywhere else to do go.i think a lot of women find that.either have to make that decision do i want to just goto work for somebody else and maybe expose yourself againto discrimination, it was a very clear decision.i would do it very differently.>>mahealani: what would you
do differently?>> for one thing, because i was always in sales, i said,if they're doing their job, they should be paid and shouldbe paid according to what we agreed to negotiated.i've always been an advocate for supporting.because they earned it. that's the way i look at it.i know i've got -- i have a lot -- my top salespeoplehave been women. >>mahealani: coralie, you'reon the board of regents at u.h. and you deal withstudents.
a lot of them don't receiveclasses. for women in terms of pay,succeeding in the workplace. what kind of educationalopportunities would you advocate for>> i like the idea they would get negotiating classes.we have do be more assertive because we can do everythingthat men can do. i think encouraging them to gofor higher education and right now, we are up there inmedical school, law school, most of the graduates, 60% arewomen.
so i think just encouragingthe education and then having more women at the top willhelp bring up the bottom. >> ricci, do you think thatwe'll ever see the day when we'll hfd will have a femalechief? >> i'm sure we'll have afemale battalion chief. the fire 1, might take alittle while mainly because we don't have enough women inthe fire department. and>>mahealani: does hfd actively recruit women?>> i don't really know if they
actively recruit.i think we try to go out in the public and encourage theyounger girls in the schools and ask them if they want tobe firefighters. i think that's wherebasically starts. when we do our static displaysand have the children come to the fire station, weencourage the young children that it's not just boys, it'salso girls. >>mahealani: what's yourreaction when you deal with these young kids?>> the young kids, they don't
realize that there is a gap.they don't know. they're just children.think what they see, what they see us doing, they know theyhave a bunch of role models as anything, as mothers ceo's,firefighters, police officer, they see it.i think the future will have a lot more firefighters.but it all has to do with parenthood too.as mothers, we stop ourselves >> we want to be home with ourkids when they're younger and you said there's a gap, right?there's that gap of i need
four, five, six, 10 years toraise my kids, then can i become a firefighter or ceo.we just do in a because we sacrifice our own children.>>mahealani: do you think it's harder for moms to gethired than dads? >> no.i think it all depends on us. we're the ones who limitourselves on anything we want to do.>>mahealani: teresa, what are the protections in place forwomen with children? in the workplace? obviously, wetalked about breast feeding
earlier.are there other protections? >> well, not necessarily forwomen with children. because most of the genderprotections are for women in general.and that parenthood status is not a federally protectedcategory. that's how we have rights andprotections for other identities that we mighthave. but actually, parent hood isone of those things that is like, when we talk aboutflexibility and about
encouraging employers andmale and female employees to participate in family care,is that it's not protected activity.so you have the ability to take unpaid time off if youhave a child. and because it's unpaid, itreally limits the number of people who can participate.>>mahealani: gerri what have you told your daughters willfighting discrimination in the workplace?>> both of my daughters work in the business so they havefirsthand.
>>mahealani: is it aconversation or do you do more leading by action?>> i think it's a conversation.my daughter turned, she's going to hate me, 49 on sundayand she's got two children. my two grandsons.and there are a lot of accommodations.i think, again, she does feel like, yeah, i have theflexibility to be the president of the footballteam, you know. coaches.they have that freedom that
maybe not everybody else,like you say, a regular clerical worker would not beable to take off at 3:00 every afternoon from august tonovember, to be a coach. whether it's a man or woman.for women, in particular. because it's a familybusiness, i think people really like that because theyknow there's a real awareness and sensitivity and a respectfor parent hood. i have a enormous women whosupport their whole families. supporting their parents andthey work really hard and they
know that it's respected andthere is a lot of flexibility it being able to work fromhome and not the kind of rigidity to an office that ithink traditionally went on. >> follow up.one of the things about flexible workplaces is thatpeople talk about it doesn't just benefit the employee.it also benefits the employer.that people gain, or more likely to stay at a place thatgives them more flexibility. sometimes we, i think we hadthis discussion earlier.
women will trade wages if theycan get more flexibility or they'll work for a smallerfamily office because it will allow them to have moreflexibility for the rest of their family life.and unfortunately, when we look at the kinds of jobs thateconomy has here in hawai'i, when you look at retail sales,food service, those are jobs that have very littleflexibility and that a lot of times, what with we see ispeople who earn more have more opportunities forflexibility.
even if you don't take them,because you're trying to increase your status in youroffice. but that people who work inlower wage jobs really have very little flexibility.and there's also a national push for paid sick leave.>>mahealani: do you think the rise in the minimum wage willhelp in this flexibility at all?>> well, i don't think it helps with flexibility.actually, before minimum wage passed, i would have put downthat increasing minimum wage
is one of the things thatwomen workers need. so women are the overwhelmingmajority of minimum wage workers.and many of them are single parents.increase in minimum wage is always good for women.>>mahealani: there are a lot of employers that continue tofight against increasing the minimum wage.gerri, what do you make of that?>> i disagree. i mean, i disagree with that.i think we need to higher
minimum wage and i have alwaysfelt, having been in my younger years, i workedoperating room. even when i was director offamily planning. i took calls in the or.worked two and three jobs most of my life.so i understand how much it takes to raise a family.i think i've got a real awareness on what it takes.>>mahealani: even as an employer, you would advocatepaying for? >> yeah.i know, you really do know
that no one can make it on evenon minimum wage. you can do the numbers and yousay, what would it take? if you're working -- i don'tcare whether you were. whether it's -- i don't carewhere you are. whether it's mcdonald's, thenumbers don't work in hawai'i particularly.one of the the things in hawai'i, at least here, ifthey're full-time workers, they get health care.when i left, most states employee, employer providedhealth care was not mandated.
i don't even know how they doit because we're just a float. i really feel so sad and sorrybecause i think particularly single women with children.we do not honor it. we don't respect it in thissociety and we just really feel like it's her problem andshe shouldn't have those kids anyway.there's all this negative stuff that goes behind it.we don't-we say we do, but we don't value children orparent hood >>mahealani: coralie, youlook like you want to add
something.i was goings to say if you allow people to earn moremoney in that one job, maybe they don't have to take theother job. they'll have more time fortheir families. it's not only women.but men as women. >> in hawai'i, make a fairliving. >> even our one hotel workersare talking about most of them also have second jobs and soin some workplaces, when people are asked for nurses,i know big thing is that they
are mandated for theirovertime. they can't leave until thereplacement comes. similar to the security andprisons. then they miss their secondjob. and then they also can't gethome to pick up their kids from child care.it's in a inflexible hours, not just not being able toleave to be part of your child's after schoolactivities but to be required to stay at work longer impactsyou financially as well as
engaging with your family.>> teresa, there have been statistics that men, let'ssay in schools, they don't earn the high grades, butthey're still the one who is get the higher paying, higherpowered jobs than women. why is that?>> i think some of it has to do with expectations thatpeople have expectations that men are going to do well andthat if you hire them, i don't know that men who don't getgood grades get great jobs. i think what you can say isthat women can perform better
and they won't necessarilyearn the same. i think a lot of it has to dowith assertiveness and expectations that employershave that he's going to do a good job.>>mahealani: ricci, when you're out in the community,obviously, you're just a minority in the honolulu firedepartment. when you're out in thecommunity. what's the reaction in thepublic? >> i'm really surprised thatthere's a lot of elderly men,
like in their eighties.asians that are so supportive.and i'm really surprised to see that they talk about weshould have female president, that we would have more peacein the world. i get those kinds of commentsabout that women are more peaceful.>>mahealani: have you ever gotten a negative reactionfor being a firefighter? >> only when i first came intothe fire department, just that old mentality.but not in the past 10 years,
i would say.it's all positive. >>mahealani: what was it likein, let's say your first day on the job? was there thatawkward feeling? people didn't quite know how to treatyou? >> no.the only awkwardness was my first battalion chief, that iremember him sitting down saying, i really don'tbelieve women should be in the fire department.when he retired me, he hugged me and he just says, you know,you're just like my daughter
and i just love you.so there's just a change. over the years.i think we're just really lucky.the women, young girls of today are really lucky.they came into a whole different world.>>mahealani: coralie, did you ever experience negativityin terms of trying to climb the ladder? like why aren'tyou staying at home with your family>> actually, in my law firm, which was only men, all of thewomen, all of their wives
stayed at home.so they kind of looked at me like why aren't you there too?i remember years later, one of the partners that had a familylater in life didn't realize, wow, how did you do it? isaid, see? so you know, i think they had to experienceit themselves. women nowadays, younger ones,are kind of demanding that their spouse take more shareand then that will help them grow.>>mahealani: gerri, why don't you talk about that.the conflict between
different types much women.there is the women who work and there's the stay at homemoms and sometimes you can, they talk about each other andmaybe negative ways. can you talk about that?>> well, as someone who always had to work, so it was not anelective. i would say that's true formost women. it's a very statistically,it's a very small number and it's what the media focuseson. the ones who do get theirdegree and then drop out.
some of us do get a littleirritated, because you say, gosh, they're wasting it.this generation as opposed to mine, there really was.you find so many didn't have children.a lot of them didn't marry because they felt they had tomake the big choice. the focus was you have to goall the way to the top. lucky to get spouses.majority, 70 maybe, you really just made a choice.someone like me, i had to p work.so it wasn't, i think i won't
work.it wasn't on the table. >>mahealani: teresa,questioner would like to address battered women in theworkplace >> one of the protections forwomen at work, actually is about having leave so that youcan address domestic violence.one of the other things i hear of, what women need at work isviolence free communities actually.a workplace that is supportive of and understandshow to support their
typically mostly femalevictims of violence and that that doesn't then become aplace at work where you're also trying to like deal withother people's questions or that your employers afraidthat your batterer is going to come to their workplace.so a good thing with the hawai'i state leave is thatyou can have, even in smaller workplaces, up to five daysoff. and the other part is more ithink there's more tension to sort of anti-violenceprevention.
and encouraging people to besupportive at work. and to note have domesticviolence be that kind of silent, unknown violence inour community. >>mahealani: ricci, amy fromhonolulu says, there's been a lot of talk about women in theworkplace and giving suggestions for women.but what are the suggestions for men? to help women in theworkplace. >> to help women in theworkplace? i think it's all about respect.i think everybody, men or
women, if we're respectfulfor each other, we have a better workplace.so i think for the most part, men do respect women.and that's the only difference i would think.>> gerri, do you have any thoughts on that? what wouldbe your advice to men? >> i'm seeing a biggenerational shift. i think younger men are moregalatarian and more respectful.even my sons said something, babe sitting, oh, no, youdon't babysit your own
children.they're your children. it shifted.he's way more participative and i know a lot of men whoare. that generation, they'vebecome much more participated in raising children and beingreally an integral part of their families.i lost my train of thought. >>mahealani: actually, coreally, let me ask you. earlier, you mentioned morewomen being in nonprofits. why is it that some industrieslike nonprofits attract more
women?>> i think that we're more caring anyway.nonprofits, it's not the bottom line.although we do run it as a business, it's just a chanceto be able to help people. that does bring out ournurturing. also, there are more women atthe top in nonprofits. we understand i want somebodyto go to the may day program because i remember that imissed my kids when i was at a law firm.so we try extra hard because
we've been through it to beable to make sure that our women and men under us areable to participate in their families wholly>>mahealani: were there any flexibilities for you interms of your schedule or are you just on or off? and youdecide when you're going to work?>> we have a set schedule. of course, if they're a familyemergencies, as we all family oriented, there is a way tohave to leave the station. but for the most part, we'reon duty.
if i had to leave for anemergency, i could call my boss.he could have someone else come in and work for me.and so i can mitigate my family emergency.but we have to be there. i can't leave my work.i'm not going to have my replacement work.basically, i can't just run away>>mahealani: lloyd from waialae wants to know.if two candidates for a job, one male, one female have thesame training, same age, but
the woman has left for fiveyears for child raising, should they receive the samepay? >> yeah.i actually think when the woman comes back and she'smuch more better. better at multitasking andshe has developed a whole lot of other skills, maybe not theclimbing the ladder skills, but actually, she's much morevaluable and in a greater in the workplace, because shehad to develop, i find them much, most of them are women,they're almost all mothers.
if i were hiring one, i thinkmen can tend to be too focused and too narrow.>>mahealani: for someone who has left the workplace for awhile to raise their kids, isn't it much more difficultto get back in? >> it depends on theparticular position they're coming back into.obviously, if you were an i.t. and didn't keep up, but a lotof women do and did. they do things at home.continue to develop skills. they just did it by doing itfrom home and working from
home.which i find a lot of them do. i have a lot of interiordesigners and they actually, they most of mine want to workfrom home. they find that it's they getmore work done. not as distracted and i canwork at midnight. it really allows forcreatives to say, oh, my god, i'm at my best from like 9:00to 3:00. i'm like lord almighty, i'm inbed by 9:00. having that flexible changeda lot.
it's tough on me.i used to be so by the book and i realized the need forflexibility, i hired so many of them, actually major breadwinners in their families >>mahealani: i want to go backto ricci and talk about your role as a captain.you have to give commands and orders to mostly men.what is that like for you? >> there is a fine line.i'm also a new captain. so i'm just really blessed tohave hard working men who really know what to do.they're just really highly
trained.so it's just a matter of guiding and making sureeverybody is safe. so i'm finding that there arehuge challenges because men tend to be a little moreassertive. for the most part, i'm workingit out. >>mahealani: coralie, howdoes a woman learn to be a leader? for most people,it's not inate. >> yeah.i think just being confident in yourself and look at therole models and know that we
can do anything, and peoplemr. follow when you're passionate about something.that's why i think with nonprofits or evenbusinesses, when you're at the top and you own it, you canlead others and because you're passionate and yourwomen can do the work as well. >>mahealani: can you talkabout that teresa a little bit more in terms of in theworkplace? >> well, i was going to add,talking about what is it that men can do? one of the thingsis offer leadership
opportunities and to mentoryour female employees. like ricci was saying, whenpeople have respect amongst all coworkers, that's thebest. i think that part of it, whenpeople your earlier question about when people come backfrom child rearing is other than working for gerri, manyemployers will actually take advantage of the fact thatthey'll say, well, you haven't been in the workplacein the last amount you earned was this.so that sort of contributes to
women's falling behind.but certainly, women's development in leadership ishaving confidence which i think also is something tolearn and to not be tentative about.and to share amongst others opportunities where you getto develop your skills and you have opportunities to lead>>mahealani: i think we might see more women leaders out ofthis conversation. i want to thank all thepanelists for a lively conversation and adding moreto what we see in the
workplace.thank you all. next time on insights, in 2weeks, insights on pbs hawai'i will begin a series ofprograms focusing on the contest of the up comingprimary and general elections.our first show will feature two key state senate races,democratic primary for senate district 4 on hawai'i islandbetween senator malama solomon and former hawai'icounty mayor lorraine inouye and public primary race insenate district 23 between
richard fale and formerrepresentative kahle meyer. next time on insights on pbshawai'i. i'm mahealani richardson.a hui ho.
