Red Riding Hood

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> time for hope has had theprivilege of having many gifted and insightful authors appear asour guests through the years, and we have decided to rerun,from time to time, some of our past shows related to subjectsthat did and will again give our viewers the opportunity to learnor be inspired to hope for better days. with this in mindwe have chosen to rerun the following edition of time forhope. > i count it a tremendousprivilege to welcome you to another edition of time forhope, a faith based mental

health program. i'm dr. fredacrews, your host and i want to express my appreciation for allof the encouraging notes and personal contact i receive frommany of you letting us know how much this ministry means to you.today, i am joined by deborah dunn, marriage and familytherapist. and we're going to be discussing her newest booktitled, stupid about men 10 rules for getting romance right.in this book deborah offers a step by step plan on how to stopacting stupid about men and become smart about life. staywith us.

> and deborah, it's great havingyou again on time for hope. > it's wonderful to be herefreda. > and what a subject. < you really get into thesefairy tales don't you? > i love 'em. well we're fedthem from the time we're born and they're a natural part ofour life. i was just watching television this morning anddisney on ice is all about tinkerbell and so the storiessurround us, why not use them?

> most of the time having to dowith a woman finding her prince, along romance lines right? > of course, well, the ten rulesare illustrated by ten fairy tale characters that i thinkwere stupid about men. we're given these stories as childrenand you know, the princess diaries, all the movies we seegrowing up and as young women about the ideal, fairy talelife, but we really don't stop to think about what thosestories are telling us. cinderella, my gosh, she wentoff with a man just because he

owned a castle. what was lifereally like in that castle after she got married? and wendy whojust loved to mother lost boys, and rapunzel, who ran off withthe first stranger who rescued her from her tower, never askingany questions about who his family was. and then there waslittle red riding hood, and we know what in the world was shedoing in the forest with a wolf anyway, much less talking to him? > and i thought you brought outin your book so well, what in the world was her motherthinking letting her go off into

that forest? < > with a basket of goodies toboot. > yes. < into that forest, so you bringout so much and make these stories come alive. now, am i toassume that the authors of these fairy tales literally had inmind what you get out of them... > oh, of course not. > did we miss something backthere? <

> i don't know that they readthem in school anymore like we did. > well, they're popularized nowin movies. we certainly read those stories to our children aslittle children and they're popularized in movies. i mean,there's a tinkerbell movie out now, there's peter pan and ofcourse there's umpteen versions of cinderella, but really thisbook is not about the fairy tales this is about women'saddiction to the romanticized, idealic view of marriage andthey're not thinking and making

smart decisions about menbecause they're so entranced by the romantic process. > so much of it has to do toowith the dependence on men and you really come at that verygood i think... > thank you. > that you don't, you're notlooking, you're looking for a good man not a financial plan,< you say that you get that outof cinderella and then you're with snow white you're to behappy now don't wait for someone

to make you happy. > when you sit around and wedeaden ourselves with food and drugs and shopping and waitingfor the man who's going to kiss us, wake us up and give us alife. > and literally we're going toput all of our, we have this idea that they will just takecare of us period. everything we need, everything we want thatthey're the answer. > well, exactly. i was out inthe hall talking to your assistant with my little groupgoing there and i was saying too

many women now are given themessage in the church particularly that if they're notmarried that something's wrong with them. and they sort of lookaskance at having your own career. but i believe god has aplan for every person's life and we need to find out what thatplan is before we marry. we don't wait for the man to giveus that plan even if our plan is, you know, to be a wife andmother and there's nothing, you know, i think that's beautiful,i think that's women's divine purpose primary divine purposebut you know the world has a lot

of children and you absolutelyhave to wait for the man god sends and you might have to waittil your thirties to do that because he, you know, oftentimes we need to be educated. we need to have some lifeexperience; we need to understand our plan before welook for the man. > it's best to wait than to jumptoo soon and... > exactly... > and that happens too often... > too often.

> doesn't it? and i think yourbook will help many many women see and understand that. > oh, i hope so. > that waiting can pay off andsometimes there's the tendency to wait too long and let a goodman go so you can talk about that side also. it is time for abreak and we'll be right back. >ok, well the magic mirror is ametaphor that i use of course from the disney movies, thefairy tales "snow white & the seven dwarves" and the queen youknow asks the mirror constantly,

am i beautiful? am i beautiful?and i tell young people when i talk to them and youth groupsand that sort of thing is, first of all, the first mistake wasshe's talking to the wrong thing. she should have beentalking to god not a magic mirror. and we hear, the storyactually says and the mirror never lies. well, the mirrorconstantly lied. if the mirror had told the truth the mirrorwould have told the queen, you're not beautiful on theinside, you need to work on that. but the mirror told her;oh you're beautiful on the

outside so you're the mostbeautiful of all. so this book and the metaphor that i use isabout talking to the wrong thing, the world. and lookingfor constant affirmation and approval and being addicted in anarcissistic way to the need for that affirmation and approvaland ultimately transferring that need over to a husband or a mateto make you feel good about yourself. underneath this iswell, because the world promotes rampant sexuality and you knowthe lie that somehow the more sexually attractive you are, themore worthwhile you are as a

person, underneath all that isthe wounds that occur because of that lifestyle. so when a personmarries they cover all that up, they look for the man that'sgoing to make them feel wonderful about themselves, andthen ultimately, that all collapses into the marriage whenthat process comes to a halt. and what i describe in the bookis what i see is a very toxic cycle happening in many, manymarriages. christian marriages particularly where the wife,when romance wears off, she's not getting the constantaffirmation and attention from

her husband, begins to nag,begins to preach, begins to try to teach change, improve him,and change him, but, and starts comparing him to other men inher church and in her bible study group and thinking ...."if he could just be like that". you know, and then so her way ofgoing about that is to moralize, to try to be the holy spirit inhis life so to speak and to change him. well, what that doesto a man is "drives them away" essentially. it causes emotionaldistance, he does not want to hear from a wife what he needsto be better to meet her

expectations, and sometimes willeven do the opposite. just to maintain some sense of balanceand control > i probably don't have anydoubt that you've stayed with us as we're talking about stupidabout men with our guest, deborah dunn. but before i turnback to deborah even to make comments about this that i'mgoing to share with you, i want to remind you that we're alwaysvery happy to receive your prayer requests. we're alwaysvery happy to pray with you on the phone when you call in totime for hope and certainly i

don't want to forget to pointyou to the time for hope website www.timeforhope.org where thereare great resources there, we'll be adding deborah's book to thatresource list and we also would remind you each time that weappreciate the contributions that come in to time for hopeand if you haven't contributed to this ministry we wouldgreatly appreciate that. then i do have something from a viewerthat i'm going to share and then we'll turn to deborah to see ifshe has some comments about what this viewer shares. <

>... i have no doubt shebelieves that from what she has written and what she's lookingfor in a man. i can't guarantee that this kind of man, thistotal package is going to come along, but i will say herdesires are right on target. and that we, deborah i'm sure isgoing to advise that since she has this all laid out that shenot settle for anything less than what she wants in a man,so, i'm going to turn to deborah and we're going to talk aboutthis. what do you say? > well, i think all of thosethings that she's listed are

very important. i would adviseher to be careful not to pay too much attention to the physicalappearance to the point where she lets that overwhelm her.women are very vulnerable to good looking men and i'm certainmen are too, that's an age - old problem. but, you know, we canmiss that sterling character because we look into thosegorgeous blue eyes or that tall, dark, handsome smile and wedon't see the real man underneath. and there's a lot ofreally wonderful men who would make great husbands, fathers,and companions who are, you

know, wouldn't be a model, whoor just ordinary guys. we need to take second looks at lifecompanions like that because you know we also, on the other handtend to believe that we aren't going to get the man god desiresfor us if we aren't perfect, if we don't look great, if wearen't thin, if we aren't well dressed at all times, if wearen't, you know, beautiful and that causes a lot of self esteemissues with women and that drives them to make some badromantic mistakes. > it sure give those men who arenot tall, dark and handsome, you

know they're going to run intoproblems if all women are looking for tall dark andhandsome men and that was the saying in my, you know, when iwas of dating age and thinking about getting married, you know,tall, dark and handsome. and you're exactly right, theoutside, just like with women it doesn't, it's a package... > what you look for is thelargeness of the heart and the maturity and the godliness andthe man who is a man of god's own heart and knows god andwalks the walk and doesn't just

talk the talk. > i think that's said so well,looking back at her letter, i thought the things that shefirst said, "please pray i will meet a gentleman... > exactly. > that has character, integrity,is abstinent and will be faithful..." i would say everyone of those things she should stick to without any doubt... > absolutely, absolutely.

> those are the things that sheshould look for whether he's tall, short, middle height,whether he has all the other. > and i would say too, look atthe way he interacts with children, is he kind to yourgrandfather and listens to his old stories? does he tip thewaitress well? is he polite or does he engage in road rage?they're signs. > those are signs that youreally do need to be on the lookout for. we'll talk a littlebit more about that when we come back and we will be right back.

>too often women don'tunderstand the men they are in relationship with - especiallythose who use, abuse or in some other way take advantage ofthem. the kind of man that comes to my mind when i think of usingand abusing is the angry man. in their book, avoiding mr. wrong,stephen arterburn and dr. meg j. rinck list the characteristicsof an angry man. allow me to cite some of them. they tend tobe jealous and insecure, although they can easily wear aface of great self confidence. angry men blame others for theirproblems - especially their

wives. vulnerable wives makeeasy targets for angry men to project all their anger on.angry men love to be in control; and women, who wish to please,can be easy prey for such men. angry men refuse to admitweaknesses of any kind, pretend to have all the answers andcannot take criticism at all. needy women can easily fall prayto the angry man's belief that the answer to any domesticproblem is sex - that all women need is a good man in bed, andthat will make everything ok. and last, but not least, angrymen often threaten to hurt the

women they are partnering with,and too often the threats become reality and many women sufferphysical abuse at the hands of angry men. so, the authors'advise to you if you are not already married to such a man,but recognize the danger signs, is to get out of therelationship as fast as you safely can, because you will notbe able to change the angry man. instead accept the truth thatyou did not cause his behavior and you cannot fix it. if yourangry spouse or partner threatens to hit you, ask him toleave. if he refuses, then you

find a way to leave, and stayaway until there is real proven change in his behavior. thiswill probably require professional help for you both.and women, "begging for forgiveness is not change...youmust stop listening to what he says and only look at what hedoes. his words are lies, and his actions destructive." and ifyour angry husband, fianc㉠or boyfriend has hit you or hurtyou or your children, do not stay. (avoiding mr. wrong:stephen arterburn and dr. meg j, rinck) the scriptures relate:"donot make friends with a

hot-tempered man, do notassociate with one easily angered." (proverbs 22:24: holybible) . > we appreciate your stayingwith us on time for hope. our guest is deborah dunn and we'retalking about her book, stupid about men. and have we given thesubtitle? i don't think we have deborah, your book, ten rulesfor getting romance right. that is a lot to deliver, > it is. > but i believe you do with thebook.

> you talk about that womenshould be, they should see that it's more important to be smartthan to be sexy. there was a time when men didn't want womento be smart. > that's right. > but that's not true anymore.they like smart women now. > they do, they do and we livein a culture now, where there's a good chance that most womenwill outlive their husbands and probably, possibly even beforethey reach retirement, so, it is very crucial for women to beable to take care of themselves

and not be able, you know, notexpect a man to take care of them the rest of their lives. > but you really, i gather frommen that they like women, they like 'em to be smart and theylike 'em to be sexy so it's a combination that they're lookingfor in a woman. > well, we put too much emphasison the sexiness thing because actually once you get married,that, you know, that changes. that's another whole book. > especially after childrencome. <

> i know, that's another wholebook. i've been married almost forty years and i'm proud to saythat, i, but i counsel a lot of women who are trying to hang onto the youthful persona and they have teenagers of their own andthey're still out there trying to be sexy and the first thing itell them, you know, switch your focus because now it's time foryou to get smart. > you know, daughters don't likethat. they don't like their moms to do that. > to compete with them, exactly.

> to compete with them and idon't think moms should compete. > but we see a lot of it thesedays. > yeah, we see a lot of it thesedays. then we move on and i see a lot of this, i've seen a lotof this in my counseling and you say that we're to care forourselves as much as we care for our men. too many women thinkit's their total responsibility to make sure their man is happyand that they're, that that's what they're put on this earthfor. > you know to this day mymother, still, whenever i travel

or i'm out of town at a booksigning or a taping like this or whatever, the first thing shemay ask me is did i cook and leave meals for my husband andhow is he going to fend for himself if i'm gone and youknow, there's a certain generation of women who justbelieve their job is just to take care of their man. and infamily counseling i see a lot of angry women who are working fulltime, they're taking care of their husbands and they're notletting him do some things that i believe he'd be willing to do,but they're so perfectionists if

he doesn't do it the way theywant, she wants him to do it then it's not done right. hegets discouraged, he quits and she's critical and angry at himbecause he's not helping her enough. but the truth of it isshe's just not encouraging him enough. > and also the truth is thatthey're trying to earn their man's love. > and the day a woman wakes upto that her life will change. > exactly, i am so glad you saidthat...

> you cannot earn... > i'm so glad you said that. > a man's love, you can't make aman love you... > no, no, no, no... > no matter what you do for him,how much you do for him, so, i think you're right on targetthat we need to take care of ourselves and give as muchattention to taking care of us as we do to taking care of him.and it's okay to go out of town if you're a business,professional woman and let him

fend for himself. > of course. > now, i don't say that aboutyoung children, we, as mothers... > that's different. > that's totally, totallydifferent. > well, women confuse being awife with being a mother and they mother men and then theywonder why they're so angry and why he acts like a child becausethat's the relationship she's established with him. men don'tlike that that's just something

they find themselves caught upin. and unfortunately women confuse being needed with beingloved. they're two separate issues and that is codependencyas you well know and i would say here in the south is worse thanany place in the world where we confuse being needed with beingloved. whether it's by our children, bailing our childrenout of our scrapes, taking care of our grandchildren, cookingand cleaning for everybody, parenting everybody, even in thechurch, letting the church take advantage of you because you'reso needed and for women who have

low self esteem who don'tunderstand that love and need are two different issues theycan feel very taken advantage of and they can feel very not loved. > and worn out... > and angry... > and angry at everybody that'spulling at them but yet they're the ones that are... > encouraging... > that are encouraging that.

> and then you say don't wasteyour time trying to be perfect. again, deliverance fromperfectionism is one of the best things that can happen to awoman. > freedom, total freedom.because perfection is a form of bondage and it's usuallygoal-oriented toward being perfect at the wrong things byworldly standards and oddly enough, once you're free fromperfectionism, by worldly standards you find almostmagically, if i could use that word, that spiritually, you growso much and you're so much freer

to be yourself that you becomemore christ-like you become more loving, you're happier, you'remore at peace and you're far from perfect. > you know, i really do believethat's the foundation for freedom from perfection is arelationship with jesus christ, allowing his perfection to standfor us. he was perfect. thankfully, by his grace, wedon't have to be and that can free us up even from theperfectionism that we're talking about. there's so many otherthings that we could have

brought out and ... > this has been so much fun. > i think you've done, you'veput so much into the book like changing yourself and not yourman. i think that's really a great point. and choosing theright man not just the first one that... > comes along. so, all i can dois say thank you for coming. > oh, been a pleasure. > you've done a great job.much needed book, it's going to

fill a real nitch. > thank you and i certainlyencourage our viewers to make sure and i encourage you to makesure you get a copy of deborah's book. and i also encourage youto make sure that you join us again next week on time forhope. . to order our resources, follow the instructions on yourscreen .